Divinity RvR training

[rayyvn]

Assumptions - we want to:

1) Do more RvR as a guild.
2) Be good, if not great, at RvR. This means, among other things, be organized and function well as a team, not run as if we were a PUG.
3) Field at least two full RvR groups simultaneously.
4) Have lots of fun and get to know each other better.

Note: Not everyone has the same likes in level 50 RvR. Some like DF, like Hok and his friar brigage, others like NF. Most of this will apply to both, but can be tweaked as needed. When the content below differs, let's try to call that out to avoid confusion. Let's also not say "this type of 50 RvR is right and that's not." This is a game and what's important is that each person is doing what HE considers fun.

Now, how do we get from here to there (there being the assumptions of our goals above)?

1) Make sure everyone who WANTS to be part of this effort has a level 50 character.
2) Help each other get outfitted properly by doing DS runs, DF Lord runs, etc. as a guild.
3) TEACH, TRAIN, SHARE!
4) In the process of training, also help each other get realm levels so we can get more abilities to contribute to our collective goals.

.....................This thread is about RvR training..........................

Thread guidelines:
1) No spam, no extraneous posts. Keep this thread as lean as possible so it becomes a single place where we can share observations, advice, etc. for learning how to do RvR. The goal is that if we have a new person join us, we can point her here and have her come up to speed on our thoughts, philosophies, SoPs, decisions, etc. pretty quickly.

So, what action is required to put this all into effect?

Please post your:

questions, philosophies, training tips, dos, don'ts, etc. here, no matter how obvious and even if there are others who might disagree with you about...

how to succeed at RvR, how RvR works, how the milegates work, how porting works, what the hell are those d**ned glowing things in Castle Excalibur on the flor (really, what is that place and how does it work?), etc.

This thread should turn into, eventually, read this and you're an expert in RvR.

If you have some great understanding of a particular topic of RvR or if you remember learning things that really helped YOU, then odds are they will help others as well.

Readability: Please try and use paragraphs and some spacing so your contribution is easy to read. Reallylongparagraphsarelikereadingsentenceswithoutspaces.

What this thread is not:
- A place to ask about gearing up. Please do that elsewhere.

Note: This heading section will be edited over time as appropriate.

[rayyvn]

Here are a couple of things I learned about RvR early on that helped tremendously:

1) Always pan, no matter WHO you are in the group or what your role. It is not a pleasure cruise. This includes when you stop to buff. Everyone face in different directions, back facing the center of the circle.

2) Use the terrain to make sure you don't have huge blind spots. Don't hide just low enough on a hill so you can't see over it otherwise enemies can run right up on and get the advantage of surprise (possibly). Instead hide just high enough so you can see over the hill but so others can't see you.

This ALSO applies to when you get ready to crest a hill or come out of the water. Do NOT just run over the hill. Stop and look from just below the hill top. You will have the advantage of seeing your enemy before he sees you most likely and you can gain a number of tactical advantages this way like waiting until they sit or start moving away so you can catch them (hopefully by surprise), etc.

3) If the driver stops, do NOT start jumping and roaming around and venturing forward beyond the driver. Respect the driver's role. If he's driving, HE is driving. Period.

4) Mezzing. Don't cast mezz once and stop. Mezz four for five times, picking different targets until everything stops moving. Wait 45 seconds, repeat. Wait another 45 seconds, repeat. Etc., etc., etc.

5) Pay attention.

6) Protect your casters.

7) DO NOT BREAK MEZZ.

8) DO NOT BREAK ROOT. Root is broken when someone's who's rooted swings at someone with damage shield. Do not use damage shields in RvR. Know the difference between damage shields and damage adds.

9) Casters, as the tanks charge, if they break mezz, then root them before you start doing anything else. Then everyone make sure, DON'T FREE THE TANKS. And steer wide of them so they don't get in attacks.

10) Respect whomever's leading the group. If you have one leader, let him lead so you all work together. When you stop, then talk about different approaches.

11) Make /assist macros. Use /assist macros.

12) Kill swiftly. When a stealther pops on a caster, try to take him down before he takes the caster down. When you pop in a group of Hibs on Gareth, your life expectancy is about five seconds. Let's make that same thing true in reverse.

13) Situation awareness! Know what's going on around you so you can react swiftly. Speed is life.

14) If you're going to go AFK, please tell the entire group.

15) Use your /target last attacker bind. This way those of us who see your health drop can target you in our group window, hit our "/assist %t"[/color] macro, and have your target targeted and can /face and start casting on that target in less than two seconds. Amazing how that screws them up. Good for sorcs to mezz, wizzies to bolt, and cabbies to nearsight at pretty decent ranges.

16) Good assist macros to have:

/macro MAKEMA /macro 1A /assist %t (for main assist)
/macro MAKESA /macro 2A /assist %t (for second assist - good if you have casters and tanks, or if you have lots of tanks and your first one drops)
/assist %t (targets the person you currently have selected)

17) From a non-tank's perspective:
/macro ONME /g ..............ON ME.................... (and spam it 3-4 times - hopefully being in voice eliminates this need, however...)

18) If you are in voice, and we don't always know each other's voices, good TS or VENT ettiquette helps.
a) When there's action, kill the chatter.
b) Be brief and specific. "I need help here" is nto specific. "Rayyvn.... stealther on me by the foot of the bridge. Heal and root."
c) Be specific. Use people's names.
d) Check your sound. Help and get others to help tweak your sound settings at the earliest possible time.
e) PLEASE try not to constantly beat your microphone against your chin, or whatever. Use your mute if you're going to.
f) Learn to play without speakers. If you have your speakers on, that sound can really be a huge annoyance even if we only hear them when you push the push-to-talk key. If you have children, yes, it's imperative that you must hear them. NEVER an argument there. There are options, however, to full ear-covering headsets that block out all sound.

19) Don't negate the CC about to be cast on an assist train. Stun and root (assuming they are on separate timers - someone please confirm) can be used as "Tank or minstrel stuns someone after caster/healer, then another caster roots or mezzes." See next two items below.

20) All melee people - KNOW WHERE YOUR STOP ATTACKING BUTTON IS so you don't break cc.

21) Casters - KNOW HOW TO SIT or strafe to stop your casts. For my use I find I can still get a cast off with *slight* side to side movement but ANY forward movement stops my casting much more reliably. Sitting is great as well but takes more time overall.

22) Use the macro /groundset 1500, /groundset 1875, /groundset 2300, etc. as appropriate so you know EXACTLY when you are in range. Here's how you use it: a) Create the macro and put it on your toolbar. b) Click it. A ground target appears directly in front of you at the distance on the macro. c) Blow up the dirty little bainshee when you get to 1800. d) /target dead bainshee, /point and /laugh (yeah, if it were only that easy)

23) Tank macro: /g .........MY TARGET IS STUNNED --- ASSIST ME NOW........ (again, voice helps eliminate or reduce the need for binds like these but we won't always be 100% guild or 100% voice)
<more as I think of it>

[Yb]

Make sure entire group is on the same time table. All timers should be done at the same time, and about every 7 min. Make sure that everyone knows when AFK breaks are going to taken. When I try to offer breaks at least once an hour for smokers/bio/wife aggro managment/taking the dog out/taking the garbage out/anything else. Let those in your house know that there will be regular breaks in the group if they need you to do anything for them. Please do not go afk if you are not at a tower or keep and only if the driver has called for AFKs.

Emergency AFKs still happen but with planning you can avoid most of them.


Take critisism well. It is not ment to be meansprited it is just to teach you your role better in the group.


more to come

[Always Kiltrick (never Rien)]

rayyvn said:

9) Casters, as the tanks charge, if they break mezz, then root them before you start doing anything else. Then everyone make sure, DON'T FREE THE TANKS. And steer wide of them so they don't get in attacks.

In 8v8 try to use your single target RED mezzes and roots on tanks. Det5/Sto tanks are hard to stop for more than 8 seconds. Two CC's that last on tanks are slam 9s and 2h snare style (no immunity).

Constant disease on tanks is also a plus. Disease doesn't break root so you can cast it on them if they are rooted. There is no immunity timer for disease so you can reapply over and over.

Vs tank trains it's good to assume the MA is the one up front, so if you can root his assisters and kill him you just turned the fight in your favor. It works against even the best 8 mans on this server.

Vs zerg tanks, just root them and let all the non CC'd people get extended.. once they are dead the tanks are push overs.

[Always Kiltrick (never Rien)]

Also, kill the charge tanks because they can't be CC'd

[templar]

how about buff shears they dont brake cc anymore should i try to use those or just focus on healing and wich ones is best to use and what classes are they most effective on ?

[Always Kiltrick (never Rien)]

con strn/con buff sheer on you MA's target is always good.... I never see the reason to hp-sheer tanks when they are not being affective since dropping there health tends to break cc's.

When I play enhanced cleric I will use disease, dex/quick sheer to peel or slow down tanks till they get rooted. I lead with disease just incase someone is already casting root and dex/quick to slow the rear snare style down if he gets in range..

Fastest way to kill a tank is: sheer con+strn/con debuff con+strn/con +disease. Otherwise you need around 9,000 damage to kill a tank getting healed. With those debuffs, sheers, and disease he can be dropped with just a single caster while the others CC interupt.

[dakkin]

Have more than 1 /assist macro,one for the person in charge of picking targets and then for your healers, healer can have a /macro to say in group ON ME and spam it 3-4 times and have the healer targeting who is on them, the 2-3 people designated as healer peelers hit their /assist for the healer and go kill whats on the healer. Seems to work extremely good for everyone I ever saw do that so that is my 2 copper

[ozi]

It was mentioned above that you should pan.....here is a neat setup that works well:

In game open your keyboard mapping area. Set your "Mouse Pan" to your Left Mouse button and "Mouse Look" to your Right Mouse button. You might have to toggle your Mouselook Toggle to get the desired effect, but what you should end up with is the following:

Press and hold Left Mouse button: Pan all around you as you drag your mouse without changing your characters direction.

Press and hold Right Mouse button: Turns your character as if you were using the arrow keys.

Once you get used to using this setup you'll be able to pan around with your left mouse button to spot the enemy, then quickly switch to your right mouse button to turn your character around in a fraction of the time you can do it with the keyboard.

[fallenangel]

"19) Don't negate the CC about to be cast on an assist train. Stun and root (assuming they are on separate timers - someone please confirm) can be used as "Tank or minstrel stuns someone after caster/healer, then another caster roots or mezzes."

Root and snare share the same timer. Don't think anything shares timer with stun, might be wrong tho.

[Adaron]

I try to slam a mezzed mob before I attack it to keep it from running off. It also lets the others know which one I am on.
As a tank, I'll try to keep as much on me as possible, but as we all know, ITSHAY happins.
I should be the one to pull names out and have the group far enuff behind me to prevent large agro. "Y" and Zath knows how that works, they've worked with me a lot on Lance.

Sorry YB about the wife agro last nite. Hope ya'll got good stuff.

[vyranix]

16) Good assist macros to have:

/macro MAKEMA /macro 1A /assist %t (for main assist)
/macro MAKESA /macro 2A /assist %t (for second assist - good if you have casters and tanks, or if you have lots of tanks and your first one drops)
/assist %t (targets the person you currently have selected)



Ray is right that everyone should use these macro making macros. They save a ton of time and can be used on the fly in a fight if need be.

[Always Kiltrick (never Rien)]

Just another quick fact

Castable stun immunity timer is 1 minute
Melee stun immunity timer is stun duration x 5 (7s X 5 = 45s)

Castable stun is affected by Det/Sto (cast stun on tanks last all of 1-2 seconds)
Melee stun is NOT affected by Det/Sto

[josephus]

I assume the new smite aoe insta stun falls under the castable category?

Will this insta stun break mez seeing as it does no damage?

Thanks

Thanks for mousing suggestion Ozi. Works great... +1 karma for Ozi imo

[Yb]

Scatter on INC! This has been the number one problem we are having while roaming 8. When I land mez I get about 3 of them and have to retarget, when they land mez they sometimes get all 8 of us because no one scattered. When INC is called (even if it is a fake alb inc) make sure and scatter better safe than sorry.

And by scatter I do not mean just run in a random direction. If you are a tank move towards the inc, if you are a healer move away from the inc, and if you are a caster spread out and get range. Clerics make sure when scatter that you are not still right next to the only other healer space out from them so both of oujr heals are not locked down